In the pantheon of completely left-field Georgia football injuries, Odell Collins pulling his hamstring while doing laundry always ranks near the top of the list.

Last year, placekicker Brandon Coutu missed half of the season when an onside kick experiment during practice went very wrong.

Ching reports today that punter Brian Mimbs somehow escaped becoming the latest Casualty of the Weird:

(Mimbs) confirmed that a couple days before the Tennessee game, he was trying to throw something onto a hill behind his apartment, leaned against his balcony railing and it gave way. He fell off and landed on his back/tailbone. Fell about 10 to 15 feet.

I find that easy to believe since the decks and balconies at most Athens apartments are supported by columns of tin foil. Still, it’s amazing that the guy fell 10-15 feet off a balcony, landed on his tailbone, and has kicked just fine since.

It became official today – Central Michigan is Georgia’s 12th opponent in 2008. For a guarantee of $750,000, the Chippewas will head to Athens on September 6th.  Central Michigan is the defending Mid-American Conference and Motor City Bowl champion.

The UGA press release highlights some interesting coaching ties between the two schools:

Georgia defensive coordinator Willie Martinez and linebacker coach John Jancek both have ties to Central Michigan. Martinez coached defensive backs there in 1994, ‘98 and ’99 and served as assistant head coach and secondary coach in 2000 before joining the Georgia staff in 2001. Jancek served as defensive line coach at Central Michigan in 2003 and defensive coordinator and linebacker coach in 2004. A current member of the Chippewas’ staff is Jeff Beckles who served as a graduate assistant coach at UGA in 2002, 2004 and ’05.

Now that the 2008 schedule is set, we can look at the death march that awaits.  Seven of Georgia’s 2008 opponents are in the current BCS standings.  In fact, over the roughly two-month span from Sept. 13th through Nov. 15th, Georgia will play the current BCS #6, #8, #4, #15, #7, and #17 all away from Athens.

Here is the complete schedule:

8/30:  Georgia Southern

9/6: Central Michigan

9/13:  @ South Carolina

9/20: @ Arizona State

9/27: Alabama

10/4: OPEN

10/11:  Tennessee

10/18: Vanderbilt

10/25:  @LSU

11/1: Florida (Jax)

11/8: @ Kentucky

11/15: @ Auburn

11/22: OPEN

11/29:  Georgia Tech

Lots of fun stretches in there.  First, the Dawgs go from Columbia to Tempe and return to face a second-year Saban team.  Then there is the oh-so-enjoyable month on the road that will take the Dawgs to LSU, Jacksonville, Lexington, and Auburn.  Rapture.

I do like the positions of the bye weeks.  The first week of October will be a great opportunity to recharge the batteries before Tennessee and that tough road swing. 

Hyatt’s “Hyatt Place” chain is doing one of the first promotions I’ve seen from a major hotel group aimed at the traveling football fan:

Traveling during football season? Hyatt Place’s Sports Package has everything for us sports and high-def fans need to enjoy college / pro football. They allow guests to check in earlier and stay later, give ‘em a bigger room with an eight-foot sectional couch, a choice of either the college or pro DirecTV package, and even a pizza with two 20 oz. beverages (read: non-alcoholic). The package is available now through December 30, 2007 – bowl games and the Play-Offs are on national stations after that anyways – at 70 Hyatt Places nationwide.

If you check the list of participating hotels, several potential bowl destinations are covered. I might try this chain out just for the 42″ HDTVs with DirecTV in the rooms. I’ve about had it with higher-end business hotels that think it’s OK to still give you 15 channels on their fuzzy in-hotel cable networks and charge you upwards of $10 per day for Internet access.

(h/t: Engadget)

Earlier this summer, I questioned the assumption that the Georgia Tech passing game had nowhere to go but up with Taylor Bennett (or anyone not named Reggie Ball). No less a writer than Furman Bisher said that Gailey owed Tech fans an explanation for sticking with Ball after watching Bennett’s Gator Bowl performance. I pointed out that Gailey had in fact opened the door for someone like Bennett to take the position during Ball’s career,

Bisher asserts that “Chan Gailey stubbornly stuck with Ball,” but Gailey did try someone else when Ball was struggling, even if it wasn’t Bennett. Damarius Bilbo got a chance against the Dawgs and was even worse. 3 completions, 10 attempts, and 29 yards. Gailey eventually gave up and went back to his starter. The quarterback position was up for grabs several times during Ball’s four years, and each time he held off the competitors. Against challenges from Bilbo, Pat Clark, and Bennett, Ball stood out time after time. Tech’s own official site declared the position up for competition entering the 2005 spring practice, but Ball emerged again with a clear-cut victory.

It’s finally Bennett’s turn, and we’ve now had half of a season to see if that grass really was greener. Get the Picture looks at the results so far and concludes, “I think it’s safe to say at this point that, at least with regard to choosing his starting quarterback, Chan Gailey isn’t a stupid man.”

As expected, the weak passing game doesn’t make a bad team. I wasn’t the only one thinking that “behind Choice and another quality defense, I think they’ll be rather good.” Tashard Choice and, to a greater extent, the defense are proving to be the biggest factors keeping Tech above water this year and likely headed for another bowl bid.

Poor, misunderstood Dink NeSmith.

After last week’s column met with criticism, he follows up with a response published in the Red & Black. Given the distribution list for his first column, you’ll also probably find his response in the Florida Times-Union, Boston Globe, Financial Times, and in among the coupons in your local Pennysaver.

He seems surprised that the column generated debate and pushback. Could his intent have been anything other than stirring the pot? The Journal-Constitution, Banner-Herald, and Red & Black didn’t come to him begging for a rudimentary analysis of the Georgia football program. He went looking for them and the Bulldog fans who read them. Other than suggesting that the Bible is a hoax, I don’t know of many other Dawg fans who could get the same opinion piece published in three unaffiliated newspapers. All hail the power of the First Amendment!

My issue with NeSmith’s column remains the same even after this response.

NeSmith sought out publication in (at least) three newspapers to basically tell Mark Richt that his team needs to hustle a little more.

He does a nice job of marginalizing those who disagree with him. If you agree – good news! You’re clearly in the majority of fans who can see the "truth." If not, you’re some hothead who can do little but hurl insults at a poor, loyal Bulldog who’s just trying to offer a little friendly and constructive advice to the ol’ coach we all love.

I admit that I have not been watching football or doing much of anything else for all of 41 years. When I reach that age, perhaps I’ll be able to identify that a close loss turned on defensive hustle and intensity and not on athletic ability, experience, execution, preparation, scheme and playcalling, or any combination of those. There is no question that the Dawgs have looked pretty bad at times lately. To conclude that the root cause is a simplistic question of "giving it all we’ve got" is barely the stuff of a message board rant let alone "constructive criticism" worthy of publication in Georgia newspapers. Even if you do accept that intensity is a problem, does he really think that the coaches won’t recognize it without his help?

I’ll give NeSmith this: he is correct when he says that Richt already has an incentive-based contract. Every coach does. If Richt’s teams don’t win and revenues decline, he’ll be replaced just as his two predecessors were. That’s a pretty clear incentive. Apparently that’s not good enough.

Let’s try this: if, as NeSmith says, "football is a huge economic engine for the University," why base our hypothetical incentives on wins? The scoreboard in business is the bottom line. During the successful Mark Richt era, the "Athletic Association’s cash register" is overflowing. Georgia has even earned the title of the nation’s most profitable athletic department. We all know that football drives the bottom line of athletic departments in this part of the world. If we’re going to dangle financial incentives in front of Richt, why shouldn’t they be based on the financial performance of the organization?

Hopefully we won’t get yet another response (look in Sunday’s New York Times Magazine to be certain) because the substance leaks from each subsequent piece like a week-old balloon. He concludes, "We’ll bleed for you and our team." What the heck does that mean? What is this fascination with Erk and blood?

UPDATE: Naturally the Senator is a step ahead of me. Lots of good points in there, including a thought-provoking question about incentives. If pay-per-win would work for Richt, why not for the players? Adding to that thought, if Richt and staff deserve a bonus when players graduate, why wouldn’t the graduates also get a check with their diplomas? It’s not as if Richt is the one going to class and taking the exams.

Matchups

Two of the big matchups in this game concern me.

Auburn and LSU showed that a defense that can attack the spread option and cause disruption behind the line of scrimmage can have success against Florida. I’m not so sure that it’s a blueprint that Georgia can follow. The first issue is pressure from the defensive line. Geno Atkins has helped in this area, but a good push hasn’t really been the hallmark of the Georgia defense this year. I’d like to see Atkins start in Jacksonville; he’s the closest thing Georgia has to someone capable of getting to Tebow before he gets going. The defensive front did play better against Vanderbilt, so that’s a step in the right direction.

Then when you get past the defensive front, assignments come into play. One way to test the experience and discipline level of a linebacker is to throw some misdirection at him. Georgia’s patchwork linebacking corps struggled with Vanderbilt’s option and reverses last weekend, and Florida’s spread option is orders of magnitude more complex. Marcus Washington’s return might help, but smart, fast, and disciplined play from the linebackers as well as big hitters like Rashad Jones will be put to the test.

Then there’s the matchup on the other side of the ball. Knowshon Moreno might be Georgia’s most consistent and exciting weapon on offense, but Florida’s rushing defense is their strength. It’s actually a bit odd – the Gators are average-at-best when it comes to sacks and tackles for loss, but they are Top 15 in the nation against the run. If they have a relative weakness on defense, it’s against the pass. Georgia’s best chance might be through the air, but they have struggled with inaccuracy and drops. Sooner or later Stafford is going to start hitting receivers down the field, and it might as well be in this game.

In Florida’s two losses, Auburn and LSU attacked Florida differently. Auburn wasn’t able to run the ball, but their protection held, and Brandon Cox was able to pick off chunks of yards through the air. LSU was more effective running the ball, but they used their own spread approach involving heavy use of the quarterback in the running game. Depth might have come into play at the end of the game as Jacob Hester was able to power into the heart of that Gator run defense.

Offense

7, 13, 24, 26, 14, 17, 7, 37, 7, 14, 23, 10, 13, 13, 31, 10, 14.

Those are the point totals put up by Georgia against Florida since 1990. It’s an average of 16.5 PPG including the two wins, and it’s closer to 15 PPG under Mark Richt. While the high-profile offenses of Spurrier and Meyer have defined Florida over that time, the Cocktail Party has more or less been determined by Georgia’s (in)ability to put up points. So while the coverage leading up to the game dwells on Willie Martinez and the game plan against Tebow, some attention should also be paid to the creativity and resourcefulness of Richt, Bobo, and the rest of the offensive staff to get what they can from the personnel. Even if the defense is somewhat effective in its approach, it’s asking a lot to expect a win in this game if the Dawgs can’t break the 20-point mark.

Georgia has scored over 20 points in regulation only once in five SEC games this season.

Location

The merits of the Jacksonville location came up for discussion over the summer as they always do. There was no doubt then that the location of the game was in the heads of Georgia players and coaches. The question will almost certainly be put to the Dawgs again over the next week. Watch the quotes we get on the subject for a look into the frame of mind with which the team will approach the game.

My response last week to Dink NeSmith’s opinion piece was visited and discussed more than anything I’ve written in some time. I appreciate all who had something to say on the subject whether or not you agreed with me. The tone and passion in the initial column as well as the responses and discussion that has taken place since tells us that the program is close to a tipping point.

As I sat in Vanderbilt Stadium on Saturday night at halftime, I wasn’t thinking much about the second half. Instead I was starting to get a picture of the Georgia fan base after a second straight loss to Vanderbilt, and it wasn’t a pleasant picture. NeSmith’s column would have seemed like a love letter compared with two weeks of bloodletting following a loss in that game.

That scant three-point win over a good-but-not-that-good Vanderbilt team meant a lot of things, but most importantly it saved the fan base from completely going off the deep end. Last year’s loss to Vanderbilt was a shock to the system. A consecutive loss to the Commodores on the heels of another decisive loss to Tennessee might have been the point of no return for the strong base of support enjoyed by Mark Richt.

By no means should the win be taken as a sign that all is well or back to normal. Problems persist on both sides of the ball, depth at key positions like linebacker and tailback has taken several hits, and the schedule gets no easier. I don’t want to make a big deal over a win against Vanderbilt, but the second half performance of the team does say a little something about their pride. The "here we go again" panic could have certainly taken hold in the locker room at halftime; I can assure you that it was present in the stands. Granting that even the second half comeback had its shaky moments, I give them plenty of credit for not packing it in and making enough plays to get the win without which the program probably couldn’t have survived.

The win served as a temporary levee against a torrent of public opinion that would have swept over the program had they lost. With a bye week ahead, we’ll see what the coaching staff can do to make that barrier stronger. With a very tough stretch coming up against three of the top 20 BCS teams, the job ahead must seem like re-engineering New Orleans.

A bye week at this point in the season provides a chance to rest and recharge for the team and the fans. It also provides some time for introspection, and we’ll see no shortage of state-of-the-Dawgs stuff over the next week. At least with a win that introspection might be a little more level-headed and a little less emotional than it surely would have been after a loss.

The final score of an overtime game should award a single point to the winner. If a 27-27 game goes into overtime, the final score should be 28-27. Keep score as necessary during overtime (why not start at 0-0?), but let the record books record a victory margin of one point. I’ve never understood why the system grants a full six (or three) points for a scoring drive that artificially begins on the 25 yard line.

Last night’s 69-67 Boise St. win over Nevada took four overtime periods to decide. The game was tied at 44 following regulation time. But because both teams put up a combined 48 points in overtime, we get statements like this:

The game set a record for most points in an NCAA Division I-A game since 1937, when official record keeping began.

It’s wrong that an overtime game holds that distinction. Over a third of this "record-setting" game’s total points came in overtime.

Dink NeSmith isn’t your ordinary Georgia alumnus and fan. He’s a successful Athens businessman, publisher of newspapers throughout the southeast, former president of the Alumni Association, and chairman of the Athens ’96 Committee during the 1996 Olympics. He’s carried the Olympic torch. He is also an emeritus member of the Board of Directors of the UGA Athletic Association. You get the point.

So when someone like Mr. NeSmith submits a guest column to the Journal-Constitution about the state of the Georgia football program, it gets one’s attention. This is the kind of fire and brimstone that will surely be circulated among countless e-mail chains and resonate with many in the fan base looking for answers (and any target for blame) after a troubling loss at Tennessee. Unfortunately, NeSmith’s column demonstrates that the emotions of college football can turn even respected pillars of the community into patronizing and spoiled know-it-alls.

Romanticizing the past has been a popular technique of coping this week, and NeSmith begins his column recalling the memory of watching Georgia beat Florida in the rain. Of course that 51-0 win in 1968 was two years removed from Steve Spurrier’s final season at Florida, but we’re not here to quibble over minor points about games from 40 years ago.

The larger point is that our dreamy recollection of the glory days necessarily smoothes over the bumps and ends up robbing us of perspective.

The legend of Erk Russell is still vivid, and the image of a bloody forehead serves as an icon for an attitude and an intensity associated with his defenses. But Russell’s story is an example that outward intensity and even scheme aren’t, by themselves, means to an end. Erk bled no less during disappointing 1977 and 1979 seasons than he did in 1976 or 1980. The tandem of Dooley and Russell had more than a couple of down seasons along the way including a few losing campaigns – a low point Mark Richt hasn’t come close to approaching in seven seasons. In this current climate, one wonders if Dooley and Russell would have lasted long enough to see Herschel, Buck, and Lindsay.

NeSmith makes a common assumption that millions of dollars, top recruiting classes, and world-class facilities are unique to Georgia and are a competitive advantage. In fact, those attributes are just the ticket to the party. They allow you to be competitive in the SEC. “Competitive in the SEC” is understating Mark Richt’s impact at Georgia. A petulant demand that “it’s past time for the investments to pay off” not two years after Georgia’s second SEC title under Richt is plain insulting. NeSmith, as a ticket holder for over 40 years, should know better. His tone is that of someone who jumped on the bandwagon in 2002.

When has Richt ever been embarrassed by Steve Spurrier or Urban Meyer? He has a winning record over Phil Fulmer, one of the most successful coaches in the nation over the past 15 years. It is “unacceptable” for anyone, Athletic Board or not, to lecture Mark Richt in this manner while completely misrepresenting the state of the program. None of us knows whether the current slump is a temporary valley or a more permanent trend, but we also recognize signs that the staff isn’t complacent and satisfied with the status quo.

We also have the obligatory nod to academics. Though I believe a coach is not directly responsible for the graduation of his players, let’s say that he is. The most recent APR for Georgia football is second-best in the SEC and well above NCAA guidelines. As the APR is the NCAA’s measurement of eligibility and retention of current student-athletes, the “immediate and sustained improvement” that NeSmith sees fit to mandate is already underway. Anyone associated with the Athletic Board surely knows that fact.

None of us were pleased or even neutral about the performance we saw last Saturday. Most of us have vented about it one way or another in public or private, and we all have the right to voice our opinion no matter how vicious or blindly supportive it might be. But someone of NeSmith’s stature seeking out media venues at this time to air such vague and unverifiable claims of too often being “out-coached, out-hustled and out-classed” is different. When one’s opinion, especially in a public forum, is likely to be taken with such gravity, there is a responsibility to put a little more thought into it. You expect more than this fantasy compensation scheme.

As I noted up top, NeSmith is plenty connected. If he really desired a heart-to-heart conversation with Mark Richt or even Damon Evans, I doubt he would be turned away. I have to wonder about the motivation for dispatching this missive to the AJC and the Red & Black. Despite the backhanded “I believe in you,” is he serving public notice to Richt on his own or on behalf of a larger group of dissatisfied boosters? You can be fairly certain that the recruiting effort of which NeSmith so glowingly speaks will now have to deal with rumors of eroding support.

Sic ‘em, woof, woof!

All it will take is Guido and Giuseppe breaking a few bones to end the dropsies. From Ching’s transcription of an interview with RB coach Tony Ball:

He can catch. Lump’s got really good hands. His fingers are free and as long as your fingers are free, that’s how you catch the ball – with your fingers. So as long as those are free, he can catch it. Now when he had that club on, he had to really be concentrating. But what that cast has done is really made him concentrate. Whether it’s catching the ball or carrying the football, it’s made him concentrate on handling the football and not taking it for granted. So he’ll be better for it.

UPDATE: Then again, if the Cosa Nostra route isn’t palatable, we can try the mind-numbing team building methods of the Philadelphia Flyers (h/t Deadspin):

They even worked together connecting hundreds of Lego pieces in an attempt to define their unity as a team.

With two losses apiece, the Georgia-Florida game in two weeks is in real danger of losing its coveted 3:30 CBS slot to the Tennessee-South Carolina game.

Roger Clarkson in the ABH speculates that the most likely alternative for the WLOCP is 12:30 p.m.  An afternoon game is preferred over a night slot by the schools and the city of Jacksonville, but in the end they’ll play when the networks say so.  6:00 might be the other possibility – that was the kickoff time in 2002 as well.

On Monday, Georgia announced that freshman tailback Knowshon Moreno would be the offensive captain for Saturday’s game at Vanderbilt.  Yesterday, they took the next step and named him the starting tailback.

It’s not like Moreno getting the call is a big shock.  Thomas Brown is out with an injury, and Kregg Lumpkin is still coming back from his injury.  Moreno has earned plenty of playing time.  With the team badly in need of a spark, this show of confidence (both the captaincy and the starter label) in one of the most exciting players of the season is a good move by the staff.

In fact, it’s worth noting that all four captains for this game – Moreno, Ellerbe, Mimbs, and Prince Miller – are all first-year starters.  That’s quite a message being sent. 

Of course some of the youth movement – like Rennie Curran pushing for a starting linebacker job – isn’t necessarily a positive sign.  Call it desperation or what you like, but Georgia hasn’t given this many freshmen this much playing time since the old Scottish Rite freshman games against Georgia Tech.

Strong suffered a career-ending back injury on Sunday against Pittsburgh.  Fortunately, the injury won’t require surgery and should “get better over time,” but his football days are over.

“There was a herniated disk that pinched my spinal cord,” Strong said. “It wasn’t a stinger. It was a lot more severe than that. It won’t need surgery, thank goodness. It should be something that will get better over time and I’m grateful for that.”

Mack, who attended the Brookstone School in Columbus, quietly had one of the most successful professional careers of any Bulldog.  He was in his 14th NFL season in 2007 and had played more games as a Seattle Seahawk than all but one other person.  Strong was a two-time Pro Bowl starter (2005 and 2006) and, by reading the local reaction, seems to be beloved in the Pacific Northwest.

Strong reflects on a great career:

I don’t know if I can put it into words. …. ’93 undrafted rookie free agent. …
I feel like I’ve played a couple of careers and I’ve been apart of an incredible team. Lot of memories of coming to this building, and I was just talking to somebody downstairs about all the players that I’ve had relationships with, guys that have come and gone. … Being able to go to the Super Bowl, going to a couple of Pro Bowls, that’s something I never thought of. In ’93 if someone would have told me all that would have been waiting for me at the end of my career, I would have been like, ‘You’re nuts. No way.’ I feel like I’ve been extremely blessed.

I feel very sober about my situation. It’s funny. For the last three years I’ve always known that, OK, at some point you have to move on. You can’t just keep playing a game for a living. But I never quite thought it would end this way, with an injury, I always thought I would be able to call my own shots and I always wanted to do it that way. But it’s OK. I feel very good about that and I feel like it’s an opportunity for me, for other players to raise up and take ownership and leadership of the team and give other players an opportunity to play. I still want to be very much around the organization and apart of the team this year, and do whatever I can to help us win.

Tony Joiner’s little legal problems evaporated rather quickly during last week. He went from facing a felony charge to missing a single series in Saturday’s LSU game. The victim of Joiner’s “crime” had a little tougher week.

The owner of the towing company involved in Florida safety Tony Joiner’s burglary case said Saturday he received more than 200 threatening phone calls.

More than a dozen of the calls were death threats and others were bomb threats, Stan Forron told Florida Today. Several callers even offered to pay the $76 towing bill if Forron would drop the charge.

“I’m just glad it wasn’t Tim Tebow, that’s all I can say,” Forron told the newspaper. “I think I would be covered in 10 feet of concrete right now if it had been Tebow.”

A look around the SEC and college football landscape:

First, a tip of the hat to Jim Harbaugh. The new Stanford coach has been poking Southern Cal with a stick ever since he took the job. Maybe Southern Cal never really took this game seriously, but they usually stomp mudholes in teams that talk up the upset. Not so this time. While the Cardinal have looked awful for most of this season, they backed up Harbaugh’s braying in this one.

While Ohio State is a long way away from breezing through the rest of their schedule, would they be the least-heralded undefeated Big 10 team ever? Teams like Illinois and Wisconsin (and of course Michigan) will have their shot, but the Buckeyes have faced a few moderately decent challenges so far with few problems.

LSU is going to be pushed a few more times this season. The impressive multi-faceted running game is tough to stop, but the offense is going to struggle to put good teams away without a playmaker like Doucet in the passing game. The defense is plenty good enough to keep most teams from challenging them, but an undefeated season for the Tigers might include one or two more close calls.

You’re not hearing as much these days from the Alabama fans who had so much fun at the expense of Auburn a few weeks ago.

Southern Cal, Arizona State, Cal, and Oregon might give the Pac 10 the strongest top four of any conference. Consider some of the others:

• SEC: LSU, Florida, …, South Carolina?, Auburn?
• ACC: Boston College, Va Tech, …, FSU? Clemson?
• Big 10: Ohio State, Illinois, Wisconsin, …, Michigan?
• Big East: South Florida, West Virginia, …, Louisville? Rutgers?
• Big 12: Oklahoma, Texas, Missouri, Nebraska?

Arizona State gets tested beginning this weekend with Washington and then will play 3 of their next 4 against Cal, SoCal, and Oregon. There’s bound to be some shaking out within the next month. Still, it’s been an impressive six weeks for those four teams (even with Southern Cal’s loss).

Tennessee, South Carolina, and Kentucky currently lead the SEC East with one loss each. I don’t expect that grouping to hold through the end of the season, but Tennessee suddenly has the inside track to win the division. They don’t play LSU, don’t play Auburn, and they’ve already played Florida and Georgia. Their toughest remaining games are against South Carolina, Alabama, and Arkansas. Those games won’t be easy, but the Vols should be favored in at least two of them. Tennessee’s game against South Carolina in Knoxville could determine the East, though the Gamecocks still have Florida remaining.

All that said, I don’t believe too much in reading into a single game, and Tennessee still had plenty of problems earlier this year. I still expect Florida to emerge somehow, but a single loss to Kentucky, Georgia (wishful thinking I know), or South Carolina would sink the Gators.

Is there any conference race less interesting or more difficult to follow than the ACC? Even though BC is undefeated, with the haphazard distribution of the divisions I fully expect to see completely random and irrelevant teams like Maryland and Miami play for the conference title. Maryland and Miami might even be in the same ACC division. Are they Atlantic or Coastal?